AN ORAL HISTORY

by

MR. & MRS. POLLARD

An Interview Conducted by

Julia Nutter

April 21, 2003

For The Department of Human Services of the Township of North Brunswick
North Brunswick, New Jersey

INTERVIEW: Mr. Myron Alan Pollard, Jr.

Mrs. Elsie Pollard

INTERVIEWED BY: Julia Nutter

PLACE:

DATE: April 21, 2003

NUTTER: ...interviewing Myron and Elsie Pollard. So what are your full names, and why were you named those names?

MYRON POLLARD: Myron Alan Pollard, Jr.

NUTTER: Why were you named that?

MYRON: Myron, M-Y-R-O-N, Alan Pollard, JR.

ELSIE POLLARD: And I'm Elsie Pollard. My mother liked the name. My father named me Rosie, but she didn't like Rosie, so she changed it to Elsie.

NUTTER: Did you have a nickname while you were growing up?

ELSIE: No, but I wished I did. I never cared for Elsie. No, it was always Elsie. One thing when I was growing up, everybody used to say, "Elsie, the cow," which used to get me very annoyed at the time.

NUTTER: Well, why were you called "Elsie, the cow?"

ELSIE: Because there was a Borden's cow that gave a lot of milk that was Walter Borden's in Plainsboro, and her name was Elsie. And that's where, you know, Elsie the cow. But that's all right. Today I don't mind. I'm quite proud.

NUTTER: So where were you born and when?

ELSIE: I was born on Friendship Road right here in North Brunswick.

MYRON: You were born on--

ELSIE: Not Friendship Road. Church Lane.

MYRON: Church Lane.

ELSIE: I lived in the country, but Church Lane. Do you know where Church Lane is?

NUTTER: Yes, I do.

ELSIE: There was a farmhouse there. We had a seven-acre farm, and I was born on that farm.

MYRON: Dirt road.

ELSIE: Yes, a dirt road at the time. And when I was five, we moved to South Brunswick, and I grew up in South Brunswick. But when I got married, I came back to North Brunswick. And we lived on--at the time Hermann Road was called Mill Lane. You know where Hermann Road is?

NUTTER: Yes, yes.

ELSIE: The first house when you come off of Georges Road on the right-hand side, there's a house--there's two houses there. One is Alan's Radio, and the one on this side, that was his mother's home. When we got married, we took her home and lived there for 20 years. Our number was One Mill Lane at the time. Then they changed the road to Hermann Road before we moved, right? Yes. We're near Finnegan's Lane, but we're still in North Brunswick.

NUTTER: Where were you born?

MYRON: I was born in North Brunswick in the On-Excel House. _____.

NUTTER: Where is that?

MYRON: On-Excel. You know where First Union is off of 130?

NUTTER: Yes.

MYRON: In the house there. Right where First Union is now was fireworks, On-Excel Fireworks, and I was born in that house.

ELSIE: They used to make fireworks there where the First Union Bank is now. And then they moved to Cranbury. Then it was taken over by the Boy Scouts, wasn't it?

MYRON: Yes, the Boy Scouts.

ELSIE: Or was it Girl Scouts? Boy Scouts.

MYRON: Boy Scouts. Now it's First Union.

ELSIE: Then it changed to a bank.

NUTTER: That's interesting. Who was the oldest person in your family as a child?

ELSIE: The oldest?

NUTTER: The oldest person you can-- Wait, let me rephrase that. Who was the oldest person you can remember in your family as a child? The person you remember seeing when you were younger.

ELSIE: You mean family or a friend?

NUTTER: Family or friend.

ELSIE: Well, I had older sisters and brothers. I remember them as a kid, you know.

NUTTER: Where did your parents work?

ELSIE: Well, my father was a farmer. We had a seven-acre farm on Church Lane. He wanted a bigger farm. So he bought a 85-acre farm out in South Brunswick, and we moved there. And my mother didn't work. Except when you're on a farm, you work.

NUTTER: You work, yes.

ELSIE: It's not like you don't work.

NUTTER: You don't have a choice.

ELSIE: We grew up working. Then he was-- Well, your mother--

MYRON: My mother was a housewife, my father was a machinist for Du Pont.

NUTTER: Okay. How many siblings did you have?

MYRON: I had two sisters and two brothers. The two sisters are older than I was.

ELSIE: I had four older sisters, two older brothers, and two younger sisters.

NUTTER: So how many in total?

ELSIE: I guess there were seven or eight of us. Anyway, my mother and father, this was their second marriage. He had three kids, and Mom had three kids when they got married, and then they had three. By the time we came along, the older kids were already out in the world.

NUTTER: That's cool. Did you all get along?

ELSIE: Oh, yes.

NUTTER: Let's see. Did you have any pets?

ELSIE: Oh, on a farm you have pets.

NUTTER: On a farm, yes.

ELSIE: We had cats and dogs and chickens and pigs. Oh, we had everything: cows, horses, turkeys. You name it, we had it. We had a lot of pets, although you didn't have time to play with them, not like the kids do today when they have a pet. We had a couple of dogs around the house, and one in the house. Did you ever have a pet?

MYRON: A dog.

ELSIE: Yes, I don't remember you ever talking about any pets. You had a dog?

NUTTER: What was _____?

ELSIE: I can't remember that.

NUTTER: Did you ever feel like you could really talk to your parents, you could open up to them?

ELSIE: No. You didn't do that when you were our age. No. It was very difficult to talk to your parents years ago for some reason. I mean you never asked anything personal. To this day I don't know whether my father had any brothers or sisters in this country. He never was one to sit down and talk with you. They were from the other side; they were both from Austria-Hungary. My mother came here when she was 16; I guess my father came when he was about 19. I know she had a brother, my uncle, in Fords. But never knew too much about my father. And anything that came up, whatever you had to learn, sex or anything else, you learned from your friends in school.

NUTTER: That's sort of how it is today.

ELSIE: Today they can talk easier with their parents, I think, kids can, I think, the way things are out in the open today. I can remember going to a drive-in theater with a boyfriend when I was 16, and I had to go to the bathroom so bad. You didn't dare say you had to go to the bathroom. You just sat there and suffered. Today that wouldn't happen, I don't think. So I mean we were shy when we were growing up, very shy. As you get older, you get over that. But we were very, very shy when we were young. Even with our sisters we never undressed in front of them, never. Not like kids are today, they don't care. It doesn't bother them. You got any funny stories?

MYRON: Nope.

NUTTER: Where did your families buy their food, their clothes?

ELSIE: Well, we used to come into New Brunswick from Dayton. I guess there were a couple of stores right here in North Brunswick.

MYRON: There was an A&P over there where-- There was a pizza place there and a cleaners and stuff, right on the corner of Elmwood--

ELSIE: And Milltown Road, right? Yes, there used to be a grocery store there. I can remember my mother stopping there. But there was a Hungarian section in New Brunswick, French Street, and that's where my mother did a lot of her shopping when we used to come into town. She knew everybody along there and could speak her Hungarian all she wanted.

NUTTER: That's so nice. Do you remember your family discussing world events, politics? Do you remember them discussing that?

ELSIE: Not too much. I can remember one remark my father made. The only remark I can remember, he said they should take every politician and every union official, line them against a wall, and mow them down with a machine gun. He had no use for politicians or the unions for some reason. I can still remember that. I was about 12 or 13 when I heard him say that, and I always remembered. Sometimes I feel like the same thing.

NUTTER: Going on to like growing up: What were your favorite childhood games?

ELSIE: Oh, gee, we used to have some kids come over, and we used to play kick-the-can, ring-a-levio, tag. We used to run around and catch fireflies and put them in a jar. That's about all I can recall. What did you like to play?

NUTTER: Mine was baseball most of the time.

ELSIE: Climbing trees. We used to like to climb trees.

MYRON: _____. I think I'm the only kid that went to school that got locked in the coat room because I was bad, and they left me there.

NUTTER: Oh, my God!

ELSIE: That was when you were in what--third grade?

MYRON: Third grade.

ELSIE: Or second grade.

MYRON: They had to call the principal to find out where I was. I was in the coat room.

ELSIE: His mother wondered where he was. The teacher took him in coat room, and he went to sleep.

MYRON: I was a bad boy in school. I used to like-- I had one teacher say, "Chewing gum in school is not necessary." Every night I stayed after school _____ "chewing gum in school is not...."

NUTTER: What schools did you go to?

MYRON: Right across the street, Parsons.

NUTTER: You went to Parsons? My sister goes there.

ELSIE: I went to Maple Meade when I was in kindergarten and lived on Church Lane. When we moved down to Dayton, I went to Dayton Grammar School. Then I graduated from Jamesburg High, which is no longer there.

NUTTER: What were your schools like? Were they very strict there? Was it more like a homey feel?

ELSIE: I think you more or less respected your teachers a lot more. You didn't talk back unless you were a bad kid. I think most schools were the same way. Like I said, we were shy, and you didn't get to be on a friendly basis with any grownups or teachers.

MYRON: It was more friendly than it was today because you had the same school for nine years. Kindergarten, first, second, all the way up to the eighth grade. Then after the eighth grade, I was transferred to New Brunswick. And of course they were building the high school then, so.... The _____ part of it is I lived on Hermann Road. Because I lived on the other side of the street, I had to walk to school. I didn't walk to the high school because I had no room[??]. I had to go to Nelson Street, New Brunswick, and walk.

ELSIE: That's way down _____, way down.

MYRON: The girl across the street got the bus.

ELSIE: Yes, they picked her up, they picked her up.

MYRON: _____. They were the old days.

NUTTER: Was that because of the border between New Brunswick and North Brunswick.

MYRON: There was a two-mile limit. If you were two miles from the school, over two miles, you got the bus. Under two miles, you walked.

ELSIE: So what was she, four feet farther away?

MYRON: But this is the way I went to school every day.

ELSIE: People got picked up. Years ago you would pick up a kid and take him to school or whatever, you know. You weren't afraid to pick up a hitchhiker years ago.

MYRON: A friend of mine picked us up in a hearse and took us to school.

ELSIE: That's a nice way to go to school.

NUTTER: Whatever works.

MYRON: Yes, we went to our first three classes, and then we had to walk up to the high school for the rest of the afternoon. On our lunch hour we walked Nelson Street to Livingston Avenue. That wasn't the high school here. The other one was down _____.

ELSIE: When I graduated from Jamesburg, a girlfriend and I went to Carter Products, which is the building on the circle. What is it called now? It's empty now.

MYRON: It's an auto something now.

ELSIE: That was Carter Products. They made Carter's Little Liver Pills, they made Arrid underarm deodorant and things. It was something brand new that they just built that came down from Jersey City, and we had a job there. He got out of the Coast Guard, and he went to work there, and he was a maintenance man there. He used to give me the eye when he'd walk by. Every once in a while I'd break the machine so he could come fix it.

NUTTER: And that's how you met?

ELSIE: That's how we met.

NUTTER: Oh, that's so sweet.

ELSIE: Little did he know.

MYRON: Sabotage.

ELSIE: That was a nice place to work, too. I worked there a couple of years, and then I quit to have my son. And then he went other places. But that's where we met.

NUTTER: How nice. Back to the school.

ELSIE: Oh, yes, school.

NUTTER: What school activities did you participate in, like sports, or just--?

ELSIE: Well, they had nothing after school years ago. During school we had our regular gym period. We played baseball, we played field hockey, we ran track, basketball. That's about all.

MYRON: Everything was in the school. Nothing after school. No activities until you got to high school. When I got to high school, I played high school baseball.

ELSIE: Oh, we didn't even have anything in high school that I know of.

MYRON: We did. We had football and baseball.

ELSIE: Oh, yes, the boys usually had something going. Even Jamesburg had baseball going, but nothing for the girls at all. When you live on a farm, you didn't have time for those kinds of activities. You had to go home and work.

NUTTER: Do you remember any fights during school when you were young?

ELSIE: No, I don't recall any. As a matter of fact, I don't recall even seeing any kids smoke.

NUTTER: No drugs or violence or anything?

ELSIE: I didn't even know what drugs were. I had no idea. It was only when my son was graduating from high school that we heard anything about drugs. Not while we were going, there was no such thing. That was city stuff. That wasn't country stuff.

MYRON: Basically you had the same people for nine years. You went to kindergarten together, you went to first grade together, you went to second grade. The only thing that changed was the teacher.

ELSIE: You knew your friends all through school. There was nothing that I ever heard of any of the kids in our class that ever had any drugs.

MYRON: This was a pond, right here.

NUTTER: Right here?

MYRON: Yes. This was originally Mr. Babbage's property. They made the school there after a while.

NUTTER: Is that right by Babbage Park?

MYRON: Yes. But that was right here. Babbage was right here.

ELSIE: Babbage Park was right here, and then they moved the....

MYRON: And Hermann Trucking was next door.

NUTTER: Where did you and your friends hang out after school? Did you have any...?

ELSIE: Not me. I had not way of getting there; I was out on the farm working.

MYRON: I had a part-time job.

ELSIE: Yes, kids had part-time jobs, working on other people's farms or wherever they could get around. I know my son, he was in Parsons School, too. In the neighborhood he was a paper boy for a long time. He delivered the _____ News to about a hundred customers.

MYRON: And the Grit. Or did I do that?

ELSIE: I don't know.

MYRON: That was a little weekly paper they put out.

ELSIE: No, we didn't have time for anything after school.

NUTTER: Was your school segregated?

ELSIE: We had a few blacks, not many; there weren't that many in this area.

MYRON: There was a Ralphson-- I think there were two colored families in town, Ralphson[sp?] and Cox[sp?], eventually.

ELSIE: I think there were two or three blacks in high school that I can recall in our class. Even in the whole school, from freshmen to seniors, there weren't that many in the area at all. They used to come up for the summer from the South to work on the different farms. They didn't talk about segregation at that time.

NUTTER: So white was basically the background of the area.

ELSIE: Yes.

NUTTER: Okay, this is going into adulthood now. What organizations or groups have you belonged to as an adult?

ELSIE: Go ahead, you first.

MYRON: All right. Let me think. I belonged to the Boy Scouts, and I belonged to different baseball teams. Then I joined the Masonic Lodge. I belong to the American Legion.

NUTTER: What's that?

MYRON: American Legion. That's a veterans' group.

NUTTER: Oh, okay.

ELSIE: Servicemen belong to it.

MYRON: And I belong to the Shriners, and I belong to the _____ Club.

ELSIE: Now, he's one of the originators of the North Brunswick First Aid Squad.

MYRON: I started the First Aid Squad.

NUTTER: Yes, I read about that. Could you explain a little about that?

ELSIE: Did you see the pictures? They have them in the archives here in the Municipal Building. And then he has a picture of him and a friend with Mr. Big-Shot himself, along with--

MYRON: Who, Bobby Johnson?

ELSIE: Bobby Johnson, who used to be a good donator for the First Aid Squad.

MYRON: _____ started the First Aid Squad here. There were three of us originally who started the First Aid Squad.

ELSIE: On New Year's Eve we had a New Year's Eve party, and the ambulance was parked in our driveway on Mill Lane.

MYRON: The girls got drunk, and we had to sit there....

ELSIE: They couldn't drink, so we drank for them. And they didn't have one call all night long. But he's one of the originators. He was the first president of the First Aid Squad in North Brunswick.

NUTTER: Oh, that's cool! When was that started?

MYRON: Nineteen fifty-five.

ELSIE: Goes back a little bit.

MYRON: It was started in '55, and our anniversary's coming up, our 50th anniversary's coming up.

NUTTER: That's very good. That's definitely something that we need to have here.

MYRON: In fact there were six of us that worked and had to buy the ambulances just to get started.

NUTTER: Oh, my God, just to buy them.

ELSIE: It was so much that he believed in.

MYRON: Two of them, and they had to be stored and painted red and white.

NUTTER: Yes, the ambulances.

MYRON: We worked out of a garage, somebody's garage. Then we moved into the township garage, then we finally built the building up there.

ELSIE: The township helped and Mayor Hermann, didn't he?

MYRON: Yeah, Mayor Hermann. Every building in the town had to donate something.

NUTTER: That's definitely a good cause. Good thing we have that today. Very good.

ELSIE: I belong to the women's organization of the Masonic Lodge; I'm an Eastern Star.

NUTTER: What's that?

ELSIE: That's an organization affiliated with the Masonic.

MYRON: It's the women's part.

ELSIE: And the American Legion Auxiliary. And what else? Can't even think of anything.

MYRON: Squibb Retirement Club.

ELSIE: Oh, yes. I worked for Squibb for 34 years. So we have a retirement club that we belong to. Well, _____ was little, I didn't belong to too many things.

MYRON: I worked for 34 years for the township.

ELSIE: He made more from his border[sp?] when it was good.

MYRON: Built the water plant.

ELSIE: He helped build the water plant.

NUTTER: Oh, well, that's great. It's good to have really good accomplishments here.

ELSIE: He's been involved in a lot of good things in North Brunswick, you know. All of his granddaughters are proud of him.

NUTTER: Where was that water plant?

ELSIE: Oh, it's still there.

MYRON: The water plant is up in Franklin Township.

ELSIE: Have you ever been there?

NUTTER: I don't think so.

ELSIE: You ought to get a group and go out there. Actually it is very interesting.

NUTTER: Is that Franklin Township, is that where it is?

ELSIE: Yes, in Franklin Township.

MYRON: Go out to Franklin Park on Claremont Road, and that's where that is.

ELSIE: You ought to get a group together and ask if you can't go out and see the water plant out there.

MYRON: But originally the water department used to be where the senior citizens' building is. There used to be rows over there and a tank.

NUTTER: Yes, that's pretty interesting. I know where that is. It's like in the middle of the neighborhood there.

MYRON: Yes. Which part of town are you from?

NUTTER: I live Beaulieuwood[sp?], by the school; I live in the neighborhood right over there.

ELSIE: What street?

NUTTER: Cypress.

MYRON and ELSIE: Cypress?

NUTTER: It's like right across from the municipal building here.

ELSIE: Well, when he first started with the water department--

MYRON: Chris Krauss lived there.

NUTTER: Chris Krauss. She's my neighbor, yes.

MYRON: There's a whole bunch of them. I could tell you almost every one.

ELSIE: You started with reading meters in everybody's houses, so he got to know almost everybody in the township.

NUTTER: Mrs. Krauss--I've tried to get Mrs. Krauss to do this project, this oral history project, because she was the head of the board of ed for a while.

ELSIE: Oh, yes. I know Chris.

NUTTER: She's very nice.

MYRON: One day when I was working at Lincoln-Mercury, I got laid off. So I went over there to go to work for the township for a while. This guy was sick in the water department. And I was there thirty-four years.

NUTTER: That's how you started with the whole _____?

MYRON: I started reading meters, and in six months I was superintendent.

NUTTER: Oh, my gosh. That's really great.

ELSIE: He worked his way up in a hurry.

NUTTER: What's the scariest thing that has ever happened to you during your life? Anything really that you remember.

ELSIE: I can remember one summer--I guess I was about nine--the sky turned yellow, and then we had a hail storm in July _____. And the wind and--oh, I can remember hanging onto my mother's dress. She was going around stuffing rags in the windows because the windows were breaking from the hailstones, they were so big. I can remember that to this day. So that must have been something that scared the heck out of me. Besides seeing Dracula at the movies. I can remember that so clearly, that the sky had such a funny yellow glow to it.

NUTTER: This was when you were about nine?

ELSIE: Yes, not even nine. It made quite an impression on me. It was very scary.

NUTTER: Do you remember anything scary, Mr. Pollard?

ELSIE: Anything scary happen to you?

MYRON: Yes, well, one thing I will always remember is when I'd be up with Mrs. La Plant's son. She'd come with a stick looking for me, and I was so scared. I was hiding under the kitchen stove. Oh, she was--she was a killer when she got mad.

NUTTER: Was he a neighbor? They were the neighbors?

ELSIE and MYRON: _____.

MYRON: Because I sent him home with a black eye and a tooth missing. So she came looking for me real good.

ELSIE: I would, too.

NUTTER: What is the most embarrassing thing that has ever happened to you?

ELSIE: I was always embarrassed. I was always, you know, somebody would say something, and I'd turn red. I blushed so easy, and that used to make me so angry, that I would blush so fast. But I don't remember anything specific. It didn't register, whatever it was. Just very embarrassing. They'd say to my mother, "Oh, what beautiful children you have." Oh, my face would turn red.

NUTTER: Describe your religious beliefs.

MYRON: I belong to the Reformed Church of North Plainfield almost 60 years now. That's that little church up top of the hill. They've got a larger place down here. That was the little church on top of the hill then.

ELSIE: I had nothing in particular. I went to the same church he did. Sometimes I believe, sometimes I don't.

NUTTER: Who is the most influential person in your religious life? Who do you look up to when you're dealing with religion?

ELSIE: No one.

NUTTER: No one?

ELSIE: No. _____.

MYRON: _____ few _____.

ELSIE: There are quite a few Masonic ministers that belong to the Masons _____.

NUTTER: How old are your grandchildren? You have three grandchildren?

ELSIE: I have one son, and I have three grandchildren.

NUTTER: How old are your grandchildren?

ELSIE: Twenty-four, and she just got married three years ago. And then I have the two younger ones: One's 19, one's 18.

NUTTER: The two younger ones, what advice would you give them on their wedding day, or some other important event like their graduation?

MYRON: Today you don't want to tell the kids anything.

ELSIE: We're always telling them what to do, and they say, "Oh, Grandma, Grandpa...." "Stop showing your belly button." "Oh, Grandma...."

NUTTER: How old were you when you started dating, and who was your first date?

ELSIE: Oh, you want to start?

MYRON: There wasn't really anyone before you.

ELSIE: Oh, I had a lot of boyfriends. Oh, Lord, I always tell my granddaughters: Don't stay with one. Love them all. I think I went to the movies with a boyfriend when I was 15. He brought me into town to see a movie. I can't remember what. That was my first date. Then we met, and I was 18, and he was 19.

MYRON: But I spent most of my time going to school and working. I worked for plumbers at night.

ELSIE: You were in the Coast Guard.

MYRON: I was in the service.

ELSIE: For a while.

MYRON: Yes.

ELSIE: They were going to ship him out when they discovered he had a punctured eardrum, so he got a medical discharge. So he wasn't in that long. But he was in for how long, a year?

MYRON: Over a year and a half.

NUTTER: The Coast Guard?

ELSIE: Yes.

MYRON: California.

NUTTER: Oh, you worked there in California?

MYRON: No, that's where I was.

ELSIE: That's where he was when he was in the Coast Guard.

MYRON: I stayed there in L.A. Went to Montero.

ELSIE: Then we were married in 1945?

MYRON: I think so.

ELSIE: It's so long ago, I forgot.

NUTTER: Nineteen forty-five?

ELSIE: We'll be married 58 years in June.

NUTTER: Oh, congratulations.

ELSIE: Thank you.

NUTTER: Where did you get married?

ELSIE: At the Presbyterian Church in Dayton, and we had our reception at the Cranbury Inn, which is an old-time restaurant. And we had our 50th wedding anniversary dinner party at the same place where we had our wedding party, at the Cranbury Inn.

MYRON: After fifty years.

ELSIE: And they have a picture album there in their waiting room that has pictures of all the brides that had their receptions there. So they took our picture for the 50th, and they added it to the album. So there's a picture of when I was a bride and when we had our 50th.

NUTTER: That's so nice. I'll have to go there and _____.

MYRON: You go there, there's a big book sitting there just _____.

ELSIE: There's an album there with pictures of.

NUTTER: Did you have a honeymoon?

ELSIE: Oh, yes. He took me to Washington, D.C. It was funny. When we had our class in Jamesburg High, we were saving to go--the senior class always went to Washington, D.C. That was the big trip of the day. We never went anywhere like kids do today. This was it for the whole four years. You went to Washington, D.C. Well, we saved and saved, and then we couldn't--they had to cancel out because of the war. So we lost that. So that's where we went on our honeymoon. I figured I'm going to get to Washington, D.C.

MYRON: We decided _____.

ELSIE: We'll get there one way or another. Then he takes me to a ball game. No, it wasn't.

MYRON: On our honeymoon? What else can you do.

ELSIE: Well, yes, that wasn't so bad.

NUTTER: You went to Washington.

ELSIE: But when we came out, we were going to walk back to the hotel, and we walked about a mile before we realized we were walking in the wrong direction. He lost his money.

NUTTER: What do you admire most about your spouse?

ELSIE: Well, he's a good guy. Everybody likes my husband. The women like him, the men like him. He's sort of a likable guy. And he used to be so good-looking. Weren't we all? We were coming home from Hawaii one time--I guess it's about 20 years ago or more--and a friend of ours.... Oh, he was quite a jokester. He told one of the guards at the airport, "You take care of this guy. This is John Wayne's brother, Buck."

MYRON: I got more kisses and hugs from people I never even knew.

ELSIE: But we've had some good times. And bad times. Not all good. Oh, it looks like refreshment time.

MYRON: Who is it?

ELSIE: Somebody with a basket of something, crackers and cookies.

NUTTER: They keep going by with it. I'm trying to figure out what they're doing.

MYRON: My favorite expression: She showed this _____ one time. This is my little girl from Budapest, _____. She goes,"I never had it so good." How do you like that?

ELSIE: And he always tells me that I didn't have a pair of shoes until he married me. I said, "You didn't do my any favors."

NUTTER: What did you find the most difficult about raising your child and what was most rewarding about it?

ELSIE: I don't think we had that much of a hard time years ago. I would hate to raise kids today, it's so scary. It's scary out there today, you know. There's too many things today that you'd have to worry about that you didn't have there 50 years ago when my son was little, you know.

NUTTER: Like the violence and the drugs?

ELSIE: Yes, the violence and the drugs and, I don't know, there was always a little tension, I think, between blacks and whites. But not like today; it seems like it's worse today. I don't know.

NUTTER: Were you strict or lenient with your child?

ELSIE: I think I was strict, more strict than not.

MYRON: The kids know Grandma by the wooden spoon.

ELSIE: Even my grandchildren know me with a wooden spoon. I don't believe in sparing the rod and spoiling the child, or whatever that saying is. When they need a little swift kick in the heinie with a wooden spoon, I think they all need it once in a while. And it doesn't make them hate you because my grandchildren love me, even after using a wooden spoon on them. Always want to do what's best for them.

NUTTER: Yes. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up?

ELSIE: Did you have any--?

MYRON: I never thought of it.

ELSIE: I never really thought too much about it. But when I was going to high school, I used to love--they used to have an area time there where I could work in the library. I always enjoyed that. When I went to work for Squibb in the library, I really enjoyed it. I was there for 33 years. And you meet so many people, and it was really great. I really loved it. I always enjoyed working in a library. Until the computers came. That turned me off.

MYRON: She won't even turn my computer on.

ELSIE: I hate computers. I don't know what it is about computers. I don't like a machine that can talk to you. _____, but not the computer.

NUTTER: What was your first job?

ELSIE: What was your first job?

MYRON: A plumber.

ELSIE: You were working as a plumber's assistant when you were growing up.

MYRON: Yes. And then I went to Carter's.

ELSIE: Then you were a maintenance man. Where did you learn the maintenance work?

MYRON: Odd jobs, working in a bank.

ELSIE: My first job was working at Carter Products, outside of working on the farm. We used to do the jars of--

MYRON: After the war.

ELSIE: Arrid's Cream Deodorant. They used to be little ten-cent jars. We used to go down and put the caps on them. Then they'd go under a machine, and they would-- It was fun. We'd sit there and talk and sing and put these little labels on. Then when that machine would break down, we'd go into the Carter's Little Liver Pills room. That used to be fun, too. We _____. And all these-- Do you know what Carter's Little Liver Pills are?

NUTTER: Yes.

ELSIE: They were little round things, little tiny things. And if you saw any that were cracked or had little black spots or something, you sent them through the hose that sucked it in. We had more fun then. We had fun working there. It was a lot of fun when it was new.

NUTTER: Was there a uniform involved when you were working there?

ELSIE: Yes, we had to have a uniform on, you know, a dress type of thing.

NUTTER: Was it all women?

ELSIE: Mostly women, mostly women, yes, that worked on the Arrid line. I think it was just the men that did the maintenance work and the--

MYRON: And the supervision.

ELSIE: Yes. Well, some women were supervisors. Or bringing supplies was mostly men. Most of them women were the ones that worked on the lines.

NUTTER: Was this during World War II?

MYRON: Yes.

ELSIE: Yes, yes.

NUTTER: When did you retire from your jobs?

ELSIE: He retired in 1987, because I retired in 1988.

MYRON: Nineteen eighty-seven.

NUTTER: And where did you retire from?

ELSIE: Squibb.

NUTTER: You worked at Squibb?

ELSIE: Yes. Only now it's Bristol-Myers Squibb. But it was Squibb when I retired.

NUTTER: Right. And you worked with the water company here in town.

MYRON: The township, right here, yes.

NUTTER: Were you or your spouse in any branch of the military?

ELSIE: He was in the Coast Guard.

MYRON: I was in the Coast Guard.

NUTTER: And that was only for a year or so?

MYRON: A year and a half? We're both members of the Navy League, though.

ELSIE: Oh, that's another organization. I forgot about the Navy League. It's a civilian-type thing. Anyone can join it. But it's something to help the naval cadets and the ships that go out of--what's that place?

MYRON: Earle.

ELSIE: Naval Weapons-Earle.

MYRON: Right, Naval Weapons. See, what they do, these kids, the money they earn today, they can't raise a family. So we help them out.

ELSIE: At Thanksgiving they donate turkeys and things for their families.

NUTTER: Oh, that's nice.

ELSIE: We adopted a ship.

NUTTER: What do you mean like adopting?

ELSIE: Well, that was our ship, and when we did things, those guys that were on that particular ship were the ones that we'd benefit. And when they would come into shore, we'd be there with coffee and doughnuts for them and their family when they came off the ship. So it was something civilian the Navy League would do, and it was nice.

MYRON: _____.

ELSIE: Oh, yes, he gets involved in a lot of things.

NUTTER: Was there any person that had a positive influence on your life, a friend or family member, somebody in the news? Anyone who just encouraged you?

ELSIE: No, I don't think so. Not in particular.

NUTTER: Are you involved, or have been involved, in local politics?

ELSIE: Can't stand politics.

MYRON: Yes and no. Because working for the township, you had to be involved a little bit. But I was in a situation where the Republicans called me a Democrat, and the Democrats called me a Republican, so I'd win both primaries.

NUTTER: What United States president have you admired the most and why?

ELSIE: I liked Reagan. I always liked Mr. Reagan.

MYRON: Reagan, yeah.

ELSIE: Ronald Reagan. I don't know, something about his personality and the way he talked, he was so upbeat all the time. I used to like to listen to him.

NUTTER: Were you alive during World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and--

MYRON: World War II.

NUTTER: From World War II?

ELSIE and MYRON: Yes.

NUTTER: Then you were alive during the Korean and the Vietnam.

ELSIE: The other ones followed.

NUTTER: Do you remember anything specific about any of the wars?

ELSIE: I know my nephew was in Vietnam, wasn't he--Butch?

MYRON: Yes.

ELSIE: He came home, thank goodness. I never had any use for those wars over there. They weren't like World War II.

NUTTER: What happened in World War II?

ELSIE: Well, just that everybody had more feeling for World War II than these other two. I mean nobody even heard of Korea and Vietnam. It was someplace that we shouldn't have even been there. Just like I don't think we should be in Iraq, even though I support our troops and everything. But I just don't believe that we should be policing the whole darn world. I don't see why it should be up to us.

NUTTER: You said your nephew fought in--

ELSIE: Vietnam.

NUTTER: Any other relatives who fought in any of those wars?

ELSIE: Not that I know of.

MYRON: Your brother.

ELSIE: Oh, my brother was in World War II.

MYRON: He was a prisoner of war.

ELSIE: He was a prisoner of war. I forgot about that.

NUTTER: He was a prisoner of war? He Was in the Navy or--?

ELSIE: He was in the Army. He landed in France, and he was captured by the Germans.

MYRON: He was in Russia, wasn't he?

ELSIE: The Russians. _____ rescued them. And he thought he was--they were walking towards Russia, and our own planes were shooting at them. That's where you get the friendly fire. They didn't know who they were shooting at. They had to hide under the snow banks. Kind of scary when you hear stuff like that.

NUTTER: Oh, yes. Where does he live?

ELSIE: He lives down in Florida. But he got home in time for my wedding. He was my best man. I always said, "Andy's going to get home to be my best man at my wedding." And he came home.

NUTTER: Where were you for Pearl Harbor?

ELSIE: Oh, God, I don't know where I was.

MYRON: Where was I? Heating a house on Adams. I remember that.

ELSIE: You remember that? I was home on the farm. I don't know what I was doing at the time.

MYRON: I was putting in the heating system in a house on Adams Lane.

ELSIE: I know I was going to high school at the time.

MYRON: What was that farmer's name out there?

ELSIE: What was in '41, December?

MYRON: _____ house.

ELSIE: December of '41.

MYRON: Yeah, December.

ELSIE: I was in high school. I graduated in '43 from high school. You were in school, too, but you were working at that time?

MYRON: I was working by then.

ELSIE: Poor guy. He's been working since he was a little kid. Why should I say poor? I've been working since I was a little kid, too.

MYRON: My father died, so I had to.

ELSIE: So when the attacks on Pearl Harbor came to be, how did it affect you?

MYRON: I went down and enlisted.

ELSIE: Well, you weren't 17 yet. They wouldn't take you because you weren't 17.

MYRON: Yes, they would.

ELSIE: No, they wouldn't. You had to be 17 to be taken into the service.

MYRON: Let's see, '24, '41, I was 17.

ELSIE: You were?

MYRON: Yes.

ELSIE: It didn't affect me. I didn't think about it at the time.

MYRON: A whole bunch of us went down.

ELSIE: Until my brother got into it. Then it bothered you a little bit. But at the time I didn't really think too much about it.

NUTTER: Did you listen to it on the radio?

MYRON: In them days you either enlisted, or they....

ELSIE: Yes, we had the radio on all the time, listening to it.

MYRON: In them days you either enlisted, or they drafted you.

ELSIE: Well, that's it.

MYRON: You had no choice.

NUTTER: Either way you'd have to be somewhat involved.

MYRON: Yes. This way you got a choice of going where you wanted.

NUTTER: Where were you when you first learned about the assassination of President Kennedy?

ELSIE: I was probably working. Probably working. I think so.

MYRON: I was probably working, too.

ELSIE: We were in the office when somebody came in and said he had been shot.

NUTTER: How were you affected? Were you really upset?

ELSIE: No. I'd say, no. Just another assassination. I'm saying he must have asked for it. Sometimes these people get shot, and they ask for it. I don't know. I don't think it ever really affected me.

MYRON: I get some e-mail sometimes. You ought to see some of the stuff that's on there--you wouldn't believe--comparing Lincoln and Kennedy. I don't know if you've ever seen it, did you?

NUTTER: Yes, I knew it like somehow Lincoln's secretary _____ and Kennedy.

MYRON: The dates are all the same.

ELSIE: The names. Yes, that's interesting.

NUTTER: I think I have to change the tape.

ELSIE: Do you think you've got to now?

NUTTER: Yes, she said like 45 minutes per thing, so.... [Change to Side B of Tape] Do you remember about the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.?

ELSIE: Not too much. I mean we heard of it, but it wasn't something that we would cry over too much. Just like we didn't cry over Kennedy. The only thing that made me cry is that three days on television; it got to you after a while. It was shown every day, the thing about him, and laid out, and all the story about him and how he got shot. It just go to where you were sad already, you know, because you kept hearing about it so much. It's a shame that anybody gets killed like that.

NUTTER: How did your community react? Was everyone really upset?

ELSIE: I don't recall. Never really talked too much about stuff like that.

NUTTER: These events: How did they influence your opinions on today with the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism? Does it just make you feel like their should be a war?

ELSIE: Well, like I said before, I don't believe we should be there. First they're going after Bin Laden. And they couldn't find him, so they go after Saddam. Now to me that doesn't make any sense. You go get the first one first, and then go after the second one.

MYRON: My personal opinion is this is something that--his father had trouble with it, and he's following through because of the family.

NUTTER: Because his father was--

ELSIE: Involved with that.

MYRON: Right.

NUTTER: What changes in technology have occurred during your lives? That's rather a broad question.

ELSIE: Have we got enough time?

NUTTER: Sure we do. We still have time.

MYRON: When we were young, it was the radio. There was no such thing as television.

ELSIE: Yes, the television, I think, was the biggest thing because radio was great. I mean when you listened to it, they always had real good programs on. When we were kids, you know, we listened to that.

NUTTER: Do you remember any stations that you used to listen to a lot?

ELSIE: There were a lot of programs. The Kate Smith Hour.

MYRON: I'd come home on Tuesday nights, my house was loaded because I had a television set, and Milton Berle was on.

ELSIE: But they used to have a lot of good radio programs when we were kids. Like I Love a Mystery and Gangbusters and, like I said, the Kate Smith Hour. That's when Abbott and Costello did their famous "Who's on First, What's on Second?" Do you remember that? Did you ever see them do that in a movie or on a show?

NUTTER: I don't think so. What did they do in that.

MYRON: They'll say, "Who's on first?" "No, he's on second." _____.

ELSIE: I don't know. "He's on first." It's a routine that they do that'll just make you laugh _____. It is so funny. I laughed when I heard it today. But they had good shows on radio programming. A lot of comedians used to be on the radio. And they didn't have to say dirty words to make you laugh.

MYRON: There was a good program on last night. She watched The Bob Hope Show last night.

NUTTER: Bob Hope? I saw something on it about--

ELSIE: It was his 100th birthday. He was 100 years old in May. He's still alive, for goodness sake.

NUTTER: Yes, I've read about him, about Bob Hope.

ELSIE: They had a two-hour program on him last night, showing you how he started this routine.

NUTTER: Every year he got a group and took them to the camps overseas. They were _____ and everything else.

ELSIE: Yes, he used to go and do all the camps during the war.

MYRON: What did they say last night? Bob Hope has spent more time in the White House than any president because he's slept in the White House with every president.

ELSIE: He knew like 11 different presidents over the years.

MYRON: Yes.

ELSIE: But he was good. But they had a lot of good comedians and stuff on the radio that was enjoyable. I missed that when the TV came along. Now I think they give you more stations and more garbage. The most stations they give you, the most garbage there is. It's terrible.

NUTTER: I know. I had a few tapes a few years ago. They were tapes-- There was a radio station back in the forties called Let's Pretend.

ELSIE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, that was for kids.

NUTTER: I even listened to those stories.

ELSIE: Oh, yes. I think that was one of the ones I listened to.

NUTTER: I just remember thinking it was so much better than TV, you know, because you use your imagination. So do you remember like those kinds?

ELSIE: Oh, yes. Definitely. Then I Love a Mystery and the Witch's Tale. The squeaky door would open, and wooo! Not even TheShadow Knows, you know. It was fun listening to that stuff at night.

NUTTER: How about like with washing?

ELSIE: Well, there's a lot of push-button paraphernalia. I still have my old wringer machine. I have a washing machine that has clothes through the wringers. I used it once in a while, but I have the automatic. But I had that machine 50 years. It finally went on me; it made me cry. I've been through five automatic washing machines, and I still have that old wringer. My nephew came down one time when I was doing the laundry. "Oh, you got a new washing machine!" He never saw one like that before. I still have it in my cellar. It's an old Maytag. A lot of things make it easier for people, but sometimes I don't know. I have a dishwasher, but I still prefer washing my dishes. I'm crazy, and I like to keep busy.

NUTTER: Is there anything that you had to do that was really hard that now you have a machine for? Like other than washing or just regular cleaning or anything?

ELSIE: Well, vacuum cleaners are something nice to have.

MYRON: Lawn mower.

ELSIE: Oh, the push lawn mower without the motor. Oh, that was lovely.

MYRON: I've still got one of them.

ELSIE: I tell you, we still have one. We used to mow the lawn that way without a motor to help it along.

MYRON: We all had muscles back then.

ELSIE: We didn't have to go to the gym to get those back then. Just take out your lawn mower and cut the grass.

MYRON: You want to compare the old cars with the new ones: the Model T Ford and the cars today?

NUTTER: Oh, yeah, how were the cars then? What kind of cars did you have over the years? Were they a lot different from--?

MYRON: Model A's and Model T Fords.

ELSIE: You know, we got a little better as we went along. They got you were you were going. We didn't have a lot of--we didn't have a radio.

MYRON: You could pick the hood up, and you could fix it yourself.

ELSIE: No heater.

MYRON: Today you can't pick the hood up and fix it yourself.

NUTTER: Yeah, you've got to send it out.

MYRON: They've got so much technology and computer stuff in them.

ELSIE: Today they have too much on them. I still don't know how to set the clock on my car, and it's ten years old. Hold in this button and hold in that button. And the radios. I hate the radios, you know, you have to get the station. I like the old days where kind of like--I could turn it where I want it and set the little-old push button. Some of this modern technology I don't like. I think it's made it more difficult.

NUTTER: When you were younger and you had a car, did you ever just go for drives?

ELSIE: Yes. Used to take a ride on the back roads. But you can't find them anymore. There isn't any back road.

NUTTER: _____ anymore.

ELSIE: Driving today, it's scary out there. It is scary. Crazy drivers.

NUTTER: How has the role of men and women changed in the community?

ELSIE: I think more women are getting involved in politics than they used to. And bus drivers and....

MYRON: They get involved in everything.

ELSIE: Yes, they are a lot more.

NUTTER: It used to be all the men used to do all the things.

ELSIE: We never had a woman busdriver years ago for school buses. They were all men. Now all you see is the women.

NUTTER: How about in the home? More women are working?

ELSIE: Yes, I think a lot of women have to work when they buy these mansions they're putting up today that cost a hundred million dollars. They're having children. And I wonder, why do they want to have kids? They can't even stay home and raise them.

MYRON: _____ advertising _____, real estate?

NUTTER: Yes.

MYRON: She had an article in the paper Sunday. They're building some houses down by the lake in North Brunswick. It said "starting at $740,000." Starting at!

ELSIE: I don't know how people can afford these places. You don't see nice little bungalows going up.

MYRON: I put this house up _____ for $7,000.

ELSIE: Sold it for twenty-four.

NUTTER: So basically back then things were a lot cheaper.

ELSIE: I always say, you know, things keep getting more expensive all the time. But to me it's stupid because you made less, you made like $6,000 a year when we were first married. You bought a loaf of bread for eight cents. Milk was ten cents a quart. So it was comparable, and you saved money. We saved money. I didn't have to go to work when we were first married and I had my son. I stayed home with him for nine years before I decided I wanted to get out of here and get myself to work. He didn't need me anymore. Today, the women, they have a kid, and they've got to go right to work. They can't even stay home for a little bit to raise them when they really need-- Especially before the time they go to school.

MYRON: That's why they've got so many kids' schools, nursery schools.

ELSIE: And look at all of these day-care centers, my God! It's terrible when somebody else has to raise your child. I don't know. All this extra money, all this big money today, I don't think it's making people happier. That's for sure.

MYRON: I know my father bought a car, $600, a brand-new car.

ELSIE: My father bought a brand-new Buick in 1929 for less than $2,000, I'll have you know. They were rich.

NUTTER: What changes in courtship and dating have occurred during your lifetime?

ELSIE: Well, I don't know. I haven't dated lately. I don't know what they do today.

NUTTER: True. I know most of the time we go to the movies. But lately you can't-- There's nowhere really to go anymore besides the movies. So like what did you do?

ELSIE: We did a lot of bowling. There were a lot of bowling alleys around. There was a great big-- How many bowling alleys did they have in Edison at the time?

MYRON: _____.

ELSIE: There was a big bowling alley there. There was always a place to go and enjoy yourself like that. Well, there was always movie houses. Downtown we had five or six theaters.

MYRON: Saturday night dance halls.

NUTTER: Do you remember any stars or celebrities that you used to look up to?

ELSIE: I don't know. I didn't look up to any of them, but I can remember them. I remember all the movie stars. It's funny, I can remember their names better than I can name my friends.

MYRON: She's a John Wayne fan.

ELSIE: Oh, yes, John Wayne was my favorite man. But I can remember almost everyone. When I hear their voice sometimes and I'm not even looking at the picture, I can tell who it is right away. Like Cary Grant and, God, there were so many of them.

MYRON: Jimmy Stewart.

ELSIE: Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable, Barbara Stanwyck, Ava Gabor--uh Ava Gardner. There are so many. They were nice movie stars. They really knew how to act, I think. I think they acted better than they do today. I think they were really, really actors and actresses.

NUTTER: A lot more professional?

ELSIE: Yes, I think so.

NUTTER: North Brunswick.

ELSIE: Yes, North Brunswick.

NUTTER: As a child, what parks in the township did you play in, and how have they changed over the years?

MYRON: Did we have any parks?

ELSIE: Did you play in the parks?

MYRON: Babbage Park, right here.

NUTTER: You used to play here?

MYRON: There was a little park here.

ELSIE: We had no parks on the farm. You wanted to play, you played in your own yard. Our neighbor was like a mile away, you know. So we had no park.

MYRON: When I grew up-- You know where the shopping center is, right?

NUTTER: Yes.

MYRON: There was one house in the middle of that lot, and that was it. That was it!

ELSIE: We used to sit on our front porch on Hermann Road, the first house, and we used to be able to see the fireworks that they used to have in Milltown. Just one farmhouse in the center of that whole area. There were no apartment houses, no shopping center. Just an open field with this one house.

MYRON: So right here, I sat on my front porch, the houses on this side were here. There was nothing else. There was one big farm all the way in the back.

ELSIE: Across the street from Hermann Road _____ there was a big--we use to pick big blackberries. Where the carpet store is now? And then in the back where the North Brunswick Village Apartments are, my son and I used to go pick strawberries there. His mother had a vegetable garden where the parking lot is in the shopping center. _____ for growing vegetables.

MYRON: That building that's up there, that county building--

ELSIE: Weren't there two farms over here where the new school is?

MYRON: Yeah. Sam Houston and Buckley.

ELSIE: There were two farms right in that area where the school is.

MYRON: Sam Houston was where that _____ School is. Buckley's was down farther, I think.

ELSIE: Yes, there were two farmhouses _____, you know, ground when we first moved here.

MYRON: There used to be an old hospital over there. That's where that old building was over there, where the county was.

ELSIE: Oh, okay.

MYRON: That used to be--they called it _____, _____ Hospital.

ELSIE: Poor house.

MYRON: Poor house.

ELSIE: For people who couldn't afford to go to the hospital they'd put in there.

MYRON: Communicable diseases.

NUTTER: It's so different now.

ELSIE: Oh, yes. _____. And we saw where 130 and U.S. 1 where they're putting all the-- When I was a kid, there was a red light there, and the highways were just two lanes, not four. Then they changed it, and they made a circle, right?

MYRON: Yes, that's with U.S. 1.

ELSIE: And then they made four lanes. Then they put red lights in that after a while. It was changed so many times, that area there. And finally, with all the zig and zagging, oh, gosh.

NUTTER: Yes. It's crazy.

ELSIE: It is.

MYRON: U.S. 1 was there when I was young. U.S. 1 and Georges Road. That was it.

ELSIE: One thirty wasn't there. It wasn't called 130; it was called Georges Road.

MYRON: No, it was called Georges Road. The highway wasn't there.

ELSIE: U.S. 1 was there.

MYRON: No.

ELSIE: Don't tell me it wasn't. It was there when I was little, and we're only a year apart.

MYRON: I was about four or five years old when they started building U.S. 1.

ELSIE: U.S. 1 had two lanes, not four, and it was always there.

MYRON: No.

ELSIE: It was always there. You just were not-- You were too busy working. I used to have to travel to come into Carter's on it. It was always there. It was only a two-lane road, though. And Georges Road and the area from Carter's down to Adams Station even then was so--it used to be called the "death highway" because there were always so many accidents, and it was only a two-lane road. Very bad.

MYRON: It was a like stagecoach road.

ELSIE: Very bad.

ELSIE: So you know the section that goes behind by Maple Meade School, that was the original road.

NUTTER: Now where was Maple Meade School?

ELSIE: Right where it is.

MYRON: Where it is now.

ELSIE: That's Maple Meade School.

NUTTER: I think I know. Is that were the board of education offices are right now?

ELSIE: Yes, yes.

NUTTER: Yes, that's what I was-- So it's in that region.

ELSIE: That part of that road is the original, 130.

MYRON: That was the old road.

NUTTER: Oh, okay. That road there.

ELSIE: That's the original 130. This other part was added on to straighten it out. But you went through that area.

MYRON: Like that Deans, you know that winds through there?

NUTTER: Yes.

MYRON: That's the old road.

ELSIE: That's old 130. You had to go through Deans, you had to go through Dayton. That was the old 130. All this other stuff is brand new. So we've seen a lot of changes in the roads, the way they've gone up.

MYRON: All the railroad crossings were--

ELSIE: Oh, yes, and going over How Lane.

MYRON: No bridges or anything.

ELSIE: How Lane going over to 27. You're on Livingston Avenue, and How Lane takes you over the bridge, and the Shop-Rite is up there. That bridge wasn't there. You had to go over the tracks. What a bumpy track that was. I can remember that so well.

MYRON: This would shake her up. When I went to Seaside, we used to go across a wooden bridge to get to Seaside.

ELSIE: Oh, you know the Seaside bridge, the one that goes from Toms River into Seaside when you're going down Route 37?

NUTTER: Oh, okay. I think I remember that one. Yes.

MYRON: That was a wooden bridge.

ELSIE: That was a wooden bridge that it was this far from the water.

MYRON: A storm would come up, the road was under water.

ELSIE: It was scary to go across that bridge.

NUTTER: I would just _____.

ELSIE: Oh, it was so bad.

NUTTER: In your community, did you feel like everyone knew each other? There was like a sense of community?

ELSIE: Oh, yes.

MYRON: Oh, yes, definitely.

ELSIE: I think everybody knew each other. Where I am now, I really don't know my neighbors as much as I-- I don't think we're that friendly today as we were years ago. You got to know your neighbors more. Well, the women were home with their kids, and now they're not home. But then your neighbors watched your kid when you weren't home if you went shopping or whatever. And you got to know almost everybody around your block area so that it was nice.

MYRON: Let's see. One, two, three, four of us _____ right here in _____.

NUTTER: Oh, yes?

MYRON: Yes. Camden, Ferguson, Connors, and Buckley.

ELSIE: And they're all friends to this day.

NUTTER: But nowadays no one's really close. I'm close with my neighbor, but....

ELSIE: I don't know about that. I mean it's good to know your neighbors even now. Either one across the street or next door. But you don't get to know them like you used to.

NUTTER: How has the township now different from when you first moved in?

ELSIE: It's gotten too big.

NUTTER: You mean like with people?

ELSIE: It's grown to too many houses. I mean they've taken away too much ground.

MYRON: _____ Gardens was the end of North Brunswick.

ELSIE: That rest was all farms.

MYRON: _____ which she was on.

ELSIE: Oh, it was on Church Lane. We had a seven-acre farm where I was born. Now it's nothing but houses. So that's one big trouble with, I think, almost every town. Just too many people. Developers come in and put up 150,000 houses, and then the taxes go up, and who has to pay for all these people to go to school? The old people that have lived there for years and years.

NUTTER: It's really becoming a suburban sprawl.

ELSIE: Yes. No places for the kids to play.

MYRON: The other side of _____ Gardens was the dump.

NUTTER: If you were in office, what changes would you make to benefit the town today?

ELSIE: Is there anything left? I'd chase all the developers out first. Anytime you go anywhere, all you see are these things going up. Then they wonder why people are being flooded with no place for the water to go anywhere. What would you do, dear, if you were mayor? He was invited to run for mayor a couple of times. He didn't want to get involved.

MYRON: I think they should have better facilities for the senior citizens, I really do.

ELSIE: Yes, we do need something better. That old building is sort of nothing over there.

NUTTER: The one in South Brunswick is really nice.

ELSIE: Yes, that's about a year.

NUTTER: They should really do more.

ELSIE: And they do a lot more for their seniors than they do here, too.

MYRON: Oh, the senior center, that was city hall, you know.

ELSIE: That was the big city hall. That was the municipal building.

MYRON: That was the municipal building.

ELSIE: This is a Taj Mahal. We called this the Taj Mahal when they put it up, of all things.

MYRON: I would say-- That was the _____ School next door. This wasn't built _____.

ELSIE: Across the street was Parsons School, and they took that over for the municipal building then when they closed the school.

NUTTER: So that area used to be Parsons, right about where the wood is, right across the street?

MYRON: Yes.

NUTTER: That's around where I live. And then Ms. Krauss lives there. I mean that's where Parsons used to be.

ELSIE: Yes, the old township school.

NUTTER: And now it's just a lot.

ELSIE: Empty lot. Seniors park there when they got on the bus trips. We got a place to park at least. My son graduated from Linwood School. But then he had to go to New Brunswick High because they didn't have North Brunswick High School then.

NUTTER: Did you get along with your neighbors and have get-togethers?

ELSIE: We never had get-togethers. We got along with the neighbors. We weren't ones to be walking in and out of people's houses like, you know, come over for coffee or whatever.

NUTTER: You never like went over to a neighbor's house just--

ELSIE: Well, we waved to each other through the window or something or in the backyard. You know, we'd sit and gab there or talk. But never, you know, nothing like that.

MYRON: Everybody knew each other, but they kept to themselves.

ELSIE: Yes, more or less. You didn't make a pest of yourself.

NUTTER: Did you participate in any local events or clubs while in the town?

ELSIE: What was the local club? I didn't belong to any political organizations, like they have the Democratic Ladies and stuff.

MYRON: I just belong to the First Aid Squad.

ELSIE: Nothing really.

NUTTER: You've lived here basically all of your life?

ELSIE: He did. I lived, like I say, I grew up in South Brunswick, but I was in North Brunswick a lot of times.

NUTTER: Why did you stay?

ELSIE: Yeah, why did we stay here? Our friends and relatives were here, I guess, that's what we'd be into.

MYRON: A lot of friends and relatives here. Over where _____ Lanes is, that used to be a ball field. It was called the US&JC.

ELSIE: That was before we were married. We used to go there and watch them play baseball.

NUTTER: So what really keeps you around? Why didn't you ever move to like Florida or--?

ELSIE: I don't like the hot weather. I'm not one for hot weather. And my family's here. My son's here, his job's here, and my grandchildren are here, and I ain't going away as long as they're around.

NUTTER: So basically the family.

ELSIE: The family keeps us together. We had dinner at my house yesterday. And when we have dinner at my house, they have these games now where--what are they called? I can't even....

MYRON: I don't know. But some _____ movies _____.

ELSIE: Different things about movies, and you have to try to remember the different stars that appeared in it. And we do that every time we have dinner at my house. We have that quite often. My married grandson and his wife, and my son and his wife and the two kids. Sometimes my sister and her husband will come over. And that's what we do instead of watching television or whatever, we sit and play games: card games or whatever at the table. That's what we like. Everybody enjoys themselves.

NUTTER: Last question.

ELSIE: Oh!

NUTTER: Yes. If you could convey one thought or idea to the entire township, what would it be?

MYRON: That's a good question.

ELSIE: I can't think of an answer.

MYRON: _____.

ELSIE: Like what? Like for instance?

NUTTER: How, if you wanted everyone to be together, if you wanted everyone to be closer together, or you wanted them to stop building.

ELSIE: Oh, I would love them to stop building because, I think, the more houses they bring in....

MYRON: There's no place left to build.

ELSIE: Not only that, but it seems like a criminal element comes in when it gets too crowded. I mean the house next door to me was robbed last week. We never had that stuff. We never used to lock our doors. When I lived on Hermann Road, we didn't even lock the doors. And it's a shame, because I think the crowdeder--is that a word, crowdeder?--it gets.... I don't know. The wrong element comes through somehow.

MYRON: What you've got now, they're building these houses, the people come out from New York, and we're starting to get the New York atmosphere. You go in New York, they don't even know who their next-door neighbor is.

ELSIE: And then you get the bad element, too.

MYRON: You haven't got the country, the rural. There used to be three commissioners: the mayor and two elected men, that was it.

ELSIE: I don't know. The bigger the town gets, the worse it gets somehow.

MYRON: The police department was all volunteer. _____ chief of police, and I think Bill Harper was the first paid cop we had.

ELSIE: When I lived in South Brunswick, I mean there was nothing but farms out there. And now every farm is a housing development. Unbelievable. The high school they put out on Ridge Road--have you seen South Brunswick High School?

NUTTER: Yes. Gosh, it's pretty big!

MYRON: I think they're building another one now.

NUTTER: Yes, they're adding onto it.

ELSIE: They're adding onto it, yes. And that was a beautiful farm there at one time. It was just the farms. I miss seeing that.

MYRON: You had--the whole township work out of that little municipal building over there, the senior citizens' building. The cops were upstairs.

ELSIE: And you knew everybody, but we weren't....

MYRON: The zoning office was down in one room, and the water authority department was over, and the taxes there. The water department and the taxes, that was it.

ELSIE: Smaller is better.

NUTTER: So like how do you think everyone should change in the township?

ELSIE: There's no way they can change, I don't think. I don't think anything can change. Once it's that way, it's not going to get better, I'm afraid.

NUTTER: Well, we can be hopeful.

ELSIE: We can be hopeful, but I can't see anything changing.

MYRON: Right now out there by me, they're building another strip mall.

ELSIE: _____ on 27. They were supposed to make 27 a four-lane road 35 years ago when I moved out there. It's still a two-lane road. And when somebody wants to make a left-hand turn, you've got to wait until that car can turn off before you can go.

NUTTER: One more question, just one, okay?

ELSIE: I hope we're answering your stuff all right.

NUTTER: Yes. No, it's great. What have you learned about yourself and about life in general during your years living in the township?

ELSIE: That's hard to answer. We're too old to answer that. You've got to ask that you a younger person. We haven't changed a thing. I don't know of anything. I'm afraid I can't answer that.

NUTTER: Okay. All right. Three fifty-six.

ELSIE: That was pretty good.

NUTTER: You did a lot more than everyone else's family did.

ELSIE: Oh, well, I hope you enjoyed yourself.

NUTTER: Yes. I had a lot of fun.

ELSIE: I did, too. It was nice seeing you here.

MYRON: Time to shut that off, right?

[End of Interview]